Sunday, August 16, 2009

Today we went on a Family Hike

12 of us did not come. Do you want me to name everyone? Actually, we all look kind of like the Beverly Hillbillies or the Herdmans.
It was a fairly easy 1.5 mile up a trail at Denny Creek, for those of you who live in my area, culminating at this very pretty series of waterfalls.

I only made it to the first level, which is where the family picture was taken.



Others hiked further up the stream bed to two other falls.



My son Bryan took my camera up, which is why I got the other falls pictures.
The kids were able to slide down in a couple of places into the pools beneath the rocks.
It was like a natural waterslide. The water was cold, glacier, water but they all had fun taking little dips in the pools.
We all had a good time. It is the first hike I have gone on in a long time. Did take my inhaler with me, but did not need it until I got back down. That was good. Was glad I had it just in case though.
Did I say, I am tired. I slept most of the 1 1/2 hours it took to get home.




62 comments:

Homestay Mama said...

Beautiful! I want to go there! I'll call you and get directions! I've been 'itching' to get out in the woods again! My Japanese student is finished with summer quarter this coming Thursday! We should celebrate with a hike, don't you think?

Loved your family portrait! Especially the clowning! LOL

FalkFamily said...

Great pics - looks like fun - how are the lungs??

Aussie Therese said...

what a fun outing. Great photos. I think I want to go there when I come and visit you.

Emily the clarinetist said...

that looks like one of my family portraits. i have a huge extended family so the pictures are always intresting :)

diddleymaz said...

nice walk but your politics is so wrong on so many levels.
Obama won get over it.
Socialism is actually OK after all we have had it in the UK for 100 years and wow are we better for it, and social health care ie NHS is wonderful. I have heard so many ridiculous lies from right wing usa .We may moan about it but its great and we wouldnt dream of getting rid of it. UK has longer life expectancy,less infant mortality than USA.

Aussie Therese said...

Is the NHS really that wonderful?

I have children with diabetes and I heard of a family in the UK that a doctor didn't want to test their child for diabetes because she wasn't ill enough yet. This child had had some really high blood sugar numbers and some other symptoms but the doctor decided that she wasn't ill enough yet to test for diabetes. I remember thinking that maybe this wouldn't have happened if the child had been seeing a doctor privately.

There certainly are some advantages to a Govt health system but I know here in Australia it has also had a lot of disadvantages.

Karin @ 6ByHisDesign said...

busy busy busy! ferry rides, hikes up to beautiful falls...

FUN!

Karin

diddleymaz said...

I dont know what the Aussie system is, looking forward to the final Test though!Ashes coming home.
As for Health Care of course there are mistakes but all human systems are liable to error.
Once someone has been diagnosed with Diabetes in the UK tey know that they get all care free for the rest of their lives.Heart and eyesight checks, footcare,
diatetics and all meds and eqipment are provided and dental.No matter about jobs or insurance or how ill you are for however long.And the same goes for all serious conditions and even if you have to pay prescritions its very low and here in Wales we dont pay at all!If people moan its because they want more gov spending not less.

Gramma 2 Many said...

HMMMM I wonder what your taxes are for? Nothing in life is free. Even under communism.

Gramma 2 Many said...

I am rethink free. What is the definition of free? At no cost? But everything has a cost to someone. If Health Care is free, do the Dr's donate their time and efforts to heal the sick at no cost? Are they reimbursed? How do they afford to receive an education if they donate their efforts? Is their education free also? Under this type of system why should anyone work if the government is going to care for them? Why should anyone try to do better if everyone is the same?
Someone pays someplace. It is called taxes. Once no one is willing to produce there will be a huge deficit in revenue and your precious government will no longer be able to carry you and give you everything for "free".
Give me my system and the AMERICAN way of life any day. Long live CAPITALISM the system of innovation and discovery. The system that has produced so much good for the rest of the world.
I will die proud of who I am and the way of life my country provides me. In fact I am willing to die for it.

diddleymaz said...

free at the point of delivery.
Capitilism is ok in moderation but making money should not be a reason to enter a proffesion like medicene or nursing.
Fair pay for honest work and no rewards for slick greedy business people who hide greed behind scare tactics.
No one people on this earth have done more to spread democracy freedom and equal rights than Great Britain, I am so sorry that you are unable to see how unbalanced your ideas are.
American health care is run to benefit the financial well being of those who run it ,not look after sick people and that is why it is wrong.I hope President Obama manages to get his reforms your country needs them.
By the way the rest of the world is so glad you got a President who seems to be intelligent,wise and sensible,unlike the last total idiot who has dragged us into unneccesary war.

Aussie Therese said...

You make quite an assumption there diddleymaz. I certainly am not glad they have the most pro abortion leader in the world.

Average American said...

....By the way the rest of the world is so glad you got a President who seems to be intelligent,wise and sensible....

Yea, then why doesn't the rest of the world take him off our hands? You can have him! And you can have your government-run health care. Our system needs a few tweeks, but we don't need the complete overhaul the liberals want.

Kent said...

Rationing is the key word when it comes to socialized medicine, and in the United States, under the proposed ObamaCare, senior citizens wouldn't receive basic medical care.

Under ObamaCare, private insurance would be completely wiped away by a non-competitive government-run health care HMO/co-op. Everybody, regardless of age or situation would eventually lose their insurance. People without insurance, namely illegal aliens and non-citizens would receive free health care. Or, said another way, illegal aliens would steal American health care away from American citizens.

I met a guy on Monday here in California who was diagnosed with advanced colon cancer. He had surgery nine days after diagnosis. And it saved his life. That wouldn't have happened in Canada or in the UK.

Canadians and Brits and people from around the globe come to America for specialized health care for one reason: It's the best in the world.

Anybody who tells you that American health care isn't the best health care in the world is lying to you.

diddleymaz, yes, Obama won, largely because of the ignorance of the majority of the voters in America. He won by running as a Conservative Democrat, not as the Liberal he truly is, which means he lied about who he actually is, and what he actually believes.

Not a good start.

Capitalism is the engine that drives the world economy. Capitalism is the reason that you have a job, a place to live, clean water to drink, food to eat and some type of transportation to take you from place to place. Capitalism is the reason you have disposable entertainment, whether that be on television or at the movie theatre, on the sporting field, or on the printed page. You are an complete idiot and a moron for lacking this basic understanding.

In terms of health care, the American health care system is the best in the world, obviously, because people from all over the world come here for treatment.

In America, doctors and drug companies, under the auspices of capitalism, create new technologies, new treatments and new drugs, which solve medical problems, save lives and prevent pain and suffering. It's capitalism that does those things.

What has the UK done for medical care lately? Deny a pregnant woman an ambulance?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1207151/Woman-gives-birth-pavement-refused-ambulance.html

Here in American, we're always hearing how great the Canadian health care is. Yet, what is Canada currently doing in terms of health care? Cutting surgeries thanks for government underfunding.

http://www.vancouversun.com/story_print.html?id=1878506&sponsor

Socialism fails everywhere it's tried. Capitalism works everywhere it's tried. It's even working in Iraq, thanks to President Bush.

Greywolfe said...

diddleymaz, I must say, it's refreshing to see a leftist that so eloquently states his case and thereby shows the ineptitude of his public school teachers.

Some points of fact that I'm sure you'll find uncomfortable. Just grit your teeth and it will only hurt for a minute.

First, I'll take on your theory of the british dental system. There is a critical shortage of Dental nurses and Doctors. Feel free to check the British Dental Journal they have a great article concerning nurse shortages. Also, do you realize that dentists are forced to take vacations to avoid treating patients because of a lack of government money? The Daily Mail has a very nice article on their site about this. And then lastly there is a nice article from ABC news about Brits being forced to go to other countries to get dental care due to the inability to get proper care in the U.K. This is the plan you like so much??!?

Now, if you would like to sit back and allow me to beat you about the head and shoulders some more, concerning your unmitigated ingorance of the topics you wish to speak to, I'd be more than happy to run through the "nightmare" as one English PM called their healthcare system.

You're lack of understanding for what made America great is disgusting. Go back to your little liberal groups and leave good people like the folk here alone. Or if you would like to really get your teeth kicked in, feel free to bring your idiocy to my blog.

Roslyn said...

Amen to Kent & Greywolfe. I am an expat Australian & I have experienced that system of health care, UK health care & European. Aus. health care killed my mother before her time- now all they will do for my father is palliative care. When my parents visited USA they got more advanced treatment immediately they needed it in their short time here than ever in Aus.I'll take USA any day! Political leaders & all who can do so come to the USA for medical treatment, Canadians flock here for care they cannot get paying 52% I was told in taxes. Free health care? Not happening, all the LEGAL residents will pay. Socialism fails every time, because eventually you run out of rich people to pay!UK has been socialist for 100 yrs? Where did you get that idea?!
BTW who pulled GB out of the tank in WW2? And France etc etc.Just take a look at the numbers of US military in European cemeteries.
Who kept Japan from over running Australia same war? I think this writer from ?Wales needs to take a few history lessons & get out of the country & actually SEE how the rest of the world lives. You obviously have no real facts about how we live here, it is the BEST, greatest most compassionate & generous nation in the world.Obama is the most despised & hated leader this country has had in the last 40 yrs. He has lied himself blue in the face, appointed the most egregious & flagrant law breakers to almost every high public office & more than doubled our deficit in 6 months. He will be lucky to last one term -his "popularity"[pun intended] is the lowest of any president in recent history. He is a disaster.You & dissolute Europe love him so much? Take him. Please.

diddleymaz said...

Dear greywolfe I am British, I live in Wales and I have said our system is not perfect but it is miles better for ordinary middle class/working class people than yours.Also im a girl.And you shpuldnt take too much notice of the Daily mail, which I read every day. Its a joke here for its ultra right scare type stories.

diddleymaz said...

Dear Kent, actually Liberal and Socialist are not terrible baby eating monsters! Clean Water and other such benefits are the result of social responsability among Victorian era people not capitilism.Capiltists faught tooth and nail for the status quo, Check out the fight out of Plimsole or Shaftesbury or Wilberforce! Public works were done out of civic pride and social concience. Socialism and Caotilism working together make it better for everyone all round, I seek moderation .

LASunsett said...

//I am British, I live in Wales and I have said our system is not perfect but it is miles better for ordinary middle class/working class people than yours.//

So, you don't mind waiting months for an MRI? That's the time my British friends tell me it takes to get one on a non-emergent basis.

I don't know about you, but here in the US that's unacceptable.

But I can understand where you are coming from. How do you know hot unless you have known cold? How do you know worse, if you have never known better?

diddleymaz said...

We can all find cases wich prove "our" argument. As to WWII Britain and its Empire stood alone for nearly a year and USA may never have joined in at all if it wasnt attacked at Pearl Harbour.Many in USA were more than happy to leave everyone else to their fate and make peace with hitler etc.

diddleymaz said...

By the way I am enjoying this spirited discussion! As I am disabled and no longer work i miss chatting to people. By the way I used to be politicaly active as both labour and then Plaid cymru member.

diddleymaz said...

Note the non urgent- if its urgent you get one straight away. L:ots of such tests done in US are just to bulk up the fees.

diddleymaz said...

As a practising Catholic I am against it, but how can you say we have the most pro leader? Who do you mean? And here its a matter of private concience not a party thing and we are a democracy.

LASunsett said...

//L:ots of such tests done in US are just to bulk up the fees.//

Not as much as you may think. The proponents of nationalized single-payer care here in the US have used this myth as a selling point.

Insurance companies do watch this closer than many would have you believe. But then, when the insurance companies do use their power to put the brakes on such testing, the same single-payer advocates claim the they are not doing the patients due service.

cube said...

Came here via your comment at Chuck Thinks Right...

Arguing with Diddleymaz is like arguing with an American Obama voter. These are people who are comfortable feeding at the "unending teat of free government stuff" no matter if it's not really free at all and no matter how many workers have to pay for it.

Obama voters are people who can simultaneously entertain diammetrically opposed thoughts such as being against
the death penalty and against people eating meat, yet be for late term abortions.

How can you argue with such "thinkers'?

If I were you, I wouln't waste my time. No facts are going to change her mind.

diddleymaz said...

We feel the same about you guys! I note you cannot argue against my factual argument only repeat the same old right wing whinges!You only listen to things you want to hear even if they are made up.
Britain is the best place in the world to live and i am glad I do live here!

Gramma 2 Many said...

PLEASE STAY THERE!!!!!!

Larry Durham said...

Ahhh, the elitism of euro lefties who are daily watching their once great civilization swirl around the multi-culti bowl.

While you're standing in line to get your superior health care, tell Mohammad I said hi!

LASunsett said...

//We feel the same about you guys! I note you cannot argue against my factual argument only repeat the same old right wing whinges!//

I have been working in the healthcare profession for many years now. I have told you where you are wrong. But evidently you have no answer for my offerings to the discussion. Yet, you claim a factual argument. I have yet to read one fact you have written.

From where I sit, I'd say this is typical of Leftwingers no matter the nationality. So I say to you, enjoy your delusions.

Gramma 2 Many said...

Time for comment moderator. Thanks to all of my friends who know the truth and are not fearful of speaking it. This is the type of ignorance we are fighting all around the world.

Chuck said...

Diddleymaz, like LA I have worked in health care for years and quite frankly, your full of it. The Canadian and British health care systems work, most of the time. Bottom line, your citizens leave your incredible system to come to our broken down system when they need good and quick care.

Then there's this:

"I note you cannot argue against my factual argument only repeat the same old right wing whinges"

You really haven't presented any facts, just opinions. The answer though from left-wingers to anyone that questions their "facts" is that they are retreading right-wing talking points.

Finally, do you know why countries like Canada and most of Europe, including the UK, have money for health care? No spending on defense. They let America be the defender of the western world and if you have a problem, we then come and drag your ass out of it. Why don't we either let you defend yourself from now on, or, bill you for it in the future. Either way, we will then have the money to give everyone in the US everything for "free" like you do.

Pasadena Closet Conservative said...

Diddlymaz, why on earth would you invade this perfectly nice family-oriented blog with your political rants? There are plenty of conservative blogs out there, but this particular blog ain't one of them.

Back off and show some respect to this family.

Pamela D. Hart said...

Well said PCC! I was going to ask THAT question, but you beat me to it!

And of course they say their system is good- something is better than nothing.

diddleymaz said...

I saw some very political stuff linked to this blog actually so assumed it was up for discussion? As someone who has a wide interest in world affairs but lives a restricted homebound life at moment due to illness I thought it would be interesting to talk to some folks with different ideas,Im enjoying our frank and open discussion abd thought you guys were also! I assumed as its moderated by owner if she wasnt interested in an open discussuion she would block me.
By the way if you want to open a discussion about anything else id love to reply!

Katidids said...

Wow, I'm waaaay behind in my reading I see. Back to the original post, E I LOVE the family Pic! Most familys would be frowning etc after such a day, the joy & silliness on the groups face's say joy in being together !

Gramma 2 Many said...

Diddlemaz
You are right you do see very political things attached to my blog. I think the irritant in this whole discussion is the attitude that we are stupid. I am far from stupid and am very proud of my country and my way of life. I do not want it to change. I do not wish to live under Socialism and there are millions of Americans who feel the same as I. I understand that there are Socialist contryies throughout the world an people may be happy living under such rule. However, we do not like nor do we wish to live under such oppression.
For a foreigner to come here and start telling us how stupid we are is just fodder for a big fight, not a lively discussion.
I am terribly sorry that you are invalid and homebound, I understand that you may be lonesome and are just reaching out to connect with others. The best way to do so, is in a civil manner and not in immediately dissing us and our way of life.
I welcome comments from you any time as long as they can be made in a civil manner without cutting down our country and our way of life.
Thanks for your visit.

Average American said...

Diddlymaz did bring up one topic which I wish to elaborate on. She said " Lots of such tests done in US are just to bulk up the fees."

Partially true, but the MAIN reason for unnecessary procedures is the sue-happy society in which we live these days. Some of us (the conservatives) have been asking for torte reform for years. It's your type that fights against it. Doctors run extra tests and procedures to reduce their risk of being sued. The cost of these wasteful excessive procedures is about $100,000,000,000 per year! That is 100 BBBBILLION DOLLARS per year! Think of all the good that kind of money could be used for if they weren't so damned stubborn and looked into doing it. THEN tell us how bad we are!!! Otherwise, you keep your lousy system and let us keep ours!

diddleymaz said...

Dear Ganma2many, I have checked thru all my posts and I havnt said you are stupid, its just that you are ignorant of the facts and as it is very rare for discussion between such oposing views to take place I thought Id see if you answered my points.As I mentioned what I seek is a balance .Social provision isnt going to take away freedom of speech or lifestyle choices and looking after the health of the weakest and providing a safety net for the underpriviliged is a mark of how civilised a society is.The American right wing seemed to adopt a bad loser and spoiler attitude from what we see over here and that wont help anyone.Also there are lots of misconceptions about the way Great Britain operates its system, its not perfect nothing is but we want to make it better not scrap it.

Susannah said...

Beautiful family, Gramma!

Kent said~ "Capitalism is the engine that drives the world economy. Capitalism is the reason that you have a job, a place to live, clean water to drink, food to eat and some type of transportation...Capitalism is the reason you have disposable entertainment...You are an complete idiot and a moron for lacking this basic understanding...In America, doctors and drug companies, under the auspices of capitalism, create new technologies, new treatments and new drugs, which solve medical problems, save lives and prevent pain and suffering. It's capitalism that does those things."

BRAVO!!!
Diddley, I had a similar discussion many moons ago w/ somebody closely akin to you. See it here if you like: http://getbigideas.blogspot.com/2008/10/it-really-is-all-about-joe.html

"Public works were done out of civic pride and social concience."
This is a frighteningly naive perspective on human nature, Didd. I'll agree that you're right about the greed associated w/ capitalism, Didd. But I contend that greed is inherent in HUMAN NATURE, not in human institutions.

No matter what institution is in place (capitalism vs. socialism), greed will try to rule. I'll take the advancements & innovation of capitalism over the spirit-dampening effects & mind control of socialism EVERY time!

Great discussion, folks!

Susannah said...

Oh, & one more thing...two friends in the last month received life-saving diagnostic testing/surgery for very serious conditions:

*The first had a high PSA count (@ a yrly. physical) & was seen 4 DAYS LATER by a Urologist for testing, which correctly diagnosed prostate cancer. He began tx within 2 weeks of the routine PSA screen. His comment, "Mine is the VERY BEST reason NOT to have socialized medicine! Instead of holding an appointment card now, I'd be holding a number for a place in line." Indeed.

*The second is still in Neuro-ICU after having surgery for a subdural hematoma. He had been struggling w/ headache & was at work 5 DAYS ago (Monday). When he couldn't write his name, he got scared, called his MD Tues. morning. He was seen immediately, had scans, was diagnosed & in surgery withing 24 hours (Wed. a.m.). He hasn't yet had a chance to make a statement about the expediency of his care.

At least now he'll live to tell about it...Praise God!

diddleymaz said...

Any one diagnosed with those sort of life threatening things gets dealt with straight away,no delays or queing and they dont have to have the "right" insurance or be rich we all get what is needed when we need it.Why do you believe that people with life threatening conditions have to wait it is just not true. My Uncle was treated for Throat cancer by the NHS he was seen as a piority had the best care available and is still with us 20 years later. My third son has and serious life saving surgery twice, He was given instant help .YOU DONT QUE AT ALL IF ITS URGENT.
The only ques and they are much shorter than you think are for elective operations non urgent things that you can live with for a few weeks.I repeat I started this to try to correct this mistaken idea that this sort of thing is true it just isnt.Your friends would have just as quick care here if they needed it.Maybe in a ward of 4 or 6 beds though!!

diddleymaz said...

Oh and the bit about greed we agree Human Nature is flawed Its original sin, but altruism does exist and many Victorian public works attest to it and what about Carnegie? he did exploit his workers but he also gave away huge sums of money to people who he would never know. My Dads home town Kettering ,Northamptonshire has a Carnegie library, and very pretty it is too, arts and crafts style.

Greywolfe said...

diddly is right about people not waiting in queues to get treatment for serious ailments. They are just refused treatment. See this article in the Mail Online: Life prolonging cancer drugs to be banned because they cost too much

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1159506/Life-prolonging-cancer-drugs-banned-cost-much.html#ixzz0OwOE6FgQ

Aussie Therese said...

Here in Australia there is no waiting for urgent care if it is life threatening. However, there are lots of in between scenarios that people have been in a lot of pain and will wait for an appointment. Imagining waiting in pain from a knee that needs reconstructing for the next available appointment. No thank you.

Diddley, the only good thing I see from a public health system is those in real need can get help when they need it. I really wish that the public health system was means tested and that only those that are truly poor can get the Govt assistance when they need it.

My husband and I have 7 children and another one due in February. We live on one income and can afford health insurance. I think there is a lot of people that rely on the free govt handouts rather than take responsibility for their own needs even when they can afford it.

Here are a couple of other negative things:

- waiting hours for appointments when you go to a public clinic.

- my tax dollars been used for abortions.

- not getting the latest best treatments. Here in Australia no diabetic child in the public health system can get an insulin pump even though they are the best way to keep blood sugar levels under control.

- Doctors that work in the public health system have extra long hours and have a lot of ungrateful patients that complain to them about waiting long hours as if it is the doctors fault.

diddleymaz said...

NO they are not refused!! This is the sort of lies Im trying to get you to realise are out there. For petes sake, do you really think we do that? NO WE DO NOT TELL PEOPLE THEY ARE TOO EXSPENSIVE!!!!
Dont believe what you read in the Daily Mail either they exagerate and run down everything.They didnt want to allow Jewish child refugees here in the 1930's .THey dont do good news unless its a dog being rescued.
We have much better life expectancy and lower infant mortality than the US .Look it up and then try and justify your argument, we have enterprise here and free speech and democracy and great health and social care, not perfect, just better for most of us than your and if your rich you can pay and go private but if there is an emergancy they call 999 and get the NHS to do the job.

diddleymaz said...

I could never afford private insurance so I will say it again NHS is better than USA system and waiting lists are much shorter these days and overall everyone is better looked after. You can pay for private if you want as well, one doesnt exclude the other, so I think we have best of both worlds and this is still the best country in the World

Susannah said...

Aussie said~ "...there are lots of in between scenarios that people have been in a lot of pain and will wait for an appointment..."

And THAT's what both of my examples point to...one where a high PSA count might be something one could (theoretically) "live with," and the other --headaches-- which people live w/ all the time...Either of these chaps could have gone weeks w/o being treated or even seen...& one of them could be dead (Heaven forbid) by now...

Not all 'life threatening' situations present themselves waving black flags of doom. Given immediacy, good physicians can use differential diagnoses to practice sound medicine. If they're not able to SEE the patient, say, b/c some beaurocrat deems it unnecessary in the immediate run, then the care suffers & the patient suffers needlessly. I've been in pain before & also had life threatening situations 'creep up' on me - out of nowhere. Neither of these is something I cared to dilly-dally around with. Sheesh!

Say all you like about how wonderful care is in the UK, & congratulations! More power to ya! I'll stay on this side of the pond, thanks.

We do agree on Original Sin, though. I prefer to call it Human Nature. And of COURSE there are altruists among us - thank Heaven! But your Socialist friends aren't among them.

Gramma, thanks so much for the follow. It's an honor! My husband & I have been out of town & I'm just getting back to the blog. I hope to post something new in the next couple of days (kids go back to school on Tues!). Take good care~

diddleymaz said...

Im sorry you just dont get what Im saying, our health care works really well we get the tests we need quickly and diagnosis is prompt if you go to a doctor, you can also still pay if you want.
So for most of us who cant afford to pay we get as good or better than folks in USA who cant afford much or rely on employer schemes and if you can afford private insurance you have it.
Socialised health care like our NHS does not stop someone paying for private.So you could live here and pay extra just so you never have to wait for anything no matter how trivial or if you get long term illness or your poor or your in an accident you will get fantastic care and no worries about your insurance.What you seem to think happens is a nightmare fantasy cooked up by vested interest groups who want to stop your country finally reforming its system.Which is a nightmare for many sick folk on your side of the pond who are not whealthy or who have long term chronic conditions.

Gramma 2 Many said...

Diz, that is where we think you are wrong. You may be reading reports that say our poor are untreated and uncared for. It is illeagle to refuse any level of care to anyone in our country right now. That is one reason we do not feel we need Socalized Medicine. We are not jealous of people of wealth. Most of the time we are happy for them for being able to work hard and accomplish much. It is one of the great things about our country. We all strive to achieve the same.
My husband and I came from the very poorest of poor you could probably imagine, but because of hard work, he is now a successful Dr of Chiropractic. We did not wait for a hand out from the Government, we sacraficed and did without while he went to school. By the way, he was 40 years old when he graduated from Chiro school, we are now 63 years old. Also, by choice, we do not have health insurance, you could say we are one of the 45 mil O wants to say he wants to cover. We still do not want his coverage and we do not want to pay for coverage for someone who is not willing to work as hard as we have for what we have accomplished. Please note I said does not want. We will help anyone who is unable to at the drop of a hat. When we do, we do it quietly without standing on a street corner beating our breast saying look at us, look at what we just did, we just helped this poor down and out person. We just do it and go on with our life. Despite the mistakes we may have made in the past, as you yourself admit all governments have made mistakes, Americans are the most compasionate and giving people on the face of the earth. When there is a crisis anywhere, we are there to help. Often not as a government, but as an organization of people who are willing to give of their own private resources to make things better for those who are suffering.
My comment on stupid earlier, I think is a difference in language use. To us, being told we are ignorant of something is the same as calling us stupi. I stand on my statement that we are not stupid and if you want me to phrase it differently, we are not ignorant of facts at all. We are all very well read and study the issues closely. Our not being willing to capitulate to your way of thinking makes us neither stupid nor ignorant.

Roslyn said...

The majority of Americans DO NOT WANT socialized medicine & in a REBULIC the majority rules.We also do not want to scrap our current system but improve on it - the current Obama care pkg. is a loser, it would annihilate all private insurance , driving them out of business & replacing it with a govt. controlled system that WE DO NOT WANT, that is "we the majority of the people"- a system that would further drive our country into financial ruin adding over a trillion dollars to our already Obama-created- biggest- deficit- in -history! Keep your UK system we don't care & don't try to convince you to change yours so do us the common courtesy of allowing us a similar privilege.

Susannah said...

BRAVO, Gramma! Congratulations on your successes. My husband & I, too, count ourselves as ones who (at one time) could've been included among the 'out of work, lost their insurance, uninsured.' I'm a stay-at-home mom & my husband was laid off after 9-11. It was a very difficult time, but we cut corners a LOT, he did odd jobs until he found a new (& better) job. NOT ONCE did we think that the GOVERNMENT should step in & solve our employment/financial/health insurance issues. NOT ONCE!!! We dug in made things happen - and God was very gracious to us...

I, for one, don't want to depend on the gov't for livelihood, healthcare - that means they have control & prerogatives in my life that they ought NOT to assume.

Bravo, again!

diddleymaz said...

From my point of view everything you say about our system is rubbish, you dont know what your saying. I havnt told you what to think just dont believe what you have been told!
You are not the only people who work hard to achieve we do it here.
You are not the only ones who are happy to see people suceed lots of us are too!!
Im just trying to make you understand that what we have is much better than you are being led to believe by the rich insurance and vested interest lobbies who dont want change! Any way we have certainley had a frank exchange! Im afraid your view of Socialism is woefully ignorant, but them Im ignorant about some of the stuff you mentioned.
I noticed none of you picked up my points about the situation before the Revolution or the pre Pearl harbour attitude of much of the US if we cant broaden the discussion I think we have reached an impasse.Its been fun please stop believing such trash about the NHS it makes you look silly as does trying to get rid of your democratically elected leader and his plans.Bye thanks for the argument.

Gramma 2 Many said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Gramma 2 Many said...

Guess we have been dismissed. Thanks to all of the Patriots who came over and attempted to talk sense into our friend Diz. Hope to remain connected to those of you I had not met before.

Greywolfe said...

yes, diddleymaz, this conversation is and should be brought to conclusion. What you fail to understand is that very similar to the Founders of this nation, we conservatives see government intervention as a means of weakening the people. Government subsidies are designed to make the people dependant upon a government for sustanance, so that the people have to keep coming back to the teat for more and more. All the while, their ability to stand and succeed on their own is taxed and limited due to government's never ending hunger for resources.

More and more Rights are taken away and replaced with suposed rights. Free speech for free healthcare, Right to Bear Arms for the right to Welfare. I could go on and on but I won't.

The fact of history is this, Socialism has always failed in the end. It weakens the people and creates a moral equivalancy that destroys the family and society as a whole. Strength comes from self reliance and a true sense of community. These things can not be instituted by a government beurocracy, but rather by the removal from governmental interferance in daily life.

Europe has never come to understand that government is at best a necessary evil. Like a viscious dog it must be kept on a strong chain or it will devour the very people that it is to protect.

We Patriots of America, refuse to give our freedoms up for supposed security. We refuse to lose the sovereignty that so many of our forefathers died to aquire for us. It is a point of view that Europeans mostly fail to understand because they do not have our heritage. It is a point even some of our own Leftists don't understand because they still look to Europe with envy.

They see the old world as an attempt at the failed idea of human perfection. Socialist ideals clothed in "culture". For those of us who value our history and heritage, its poison in a sweet cake.

You will never understand our point of view because you have allowed yourself to become dependant upon your government for your existance. God forbid that happens here.

Is it any wonder why projections for Europe show the muslims becoming 20% of your population? Or why your governments have folded to Islamic rule so often? Europe is weak and the Jihadis know it. They outbreed you and have a strength of conviction your will never have.

diddleymaz said...

Greywolfe you are the sort of deluded fascist who gives me nightmares! we dont have spree killers all the time (no guns) and if you believe the rest of that stuff about europe your as stupid as i thought you were.

diddleymaz said...

No Gramma I just thought enough was enough if you want to discuss something else Id love to!

Greywolfe said...

If I give socialists nightmares, its a great compliment, thanks. Gramma the site is yours, I'm done hogging the oxygen.

Trish said...

Wow, Nice hike!


HAHAHA!!!

Love you!

Trish said...

Wow, Nice hike!


HAHAHA!!!

Love you!

Gramma 2 Many said...

That it was. Glad you could come along. On the hike that is.

diddleymaz said...

We are luck here also in having some great scenery, the South Wales Mountains, very lovelt and some amzing vies and waterfalls.I am not able to hike like I used to :( due to osteo-arthritus but i am lucky is seeing the mountains out of my windows.My blog has some pics of our scenery feel free to take a look! I would urge anyone to visit Bridgend area its very nice!

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